Salutations,

I don't know how feasible this would be... it would certainly take considerably more organizational and technical expertise than I can offer, but I think its an interesting enough of an idea that its worth sharing.

If someone could organize a non-profit charitable research group, get the full tax-exempt status and the like, with the right volunteers it could be of significant help in adding computer power.

My idea runs like this: A group of supporters founds a non-profit charitable research group, and puts on a "donate your old PC" campaign. The general public can donate their old PC's for a tax deduction, and the resultant computer hardware could then be "farmed" and dedicated to running Rosetta. Corporations, private donors, and the like could contribute tax-deductable funds to pay for things like the cost of housing the farms, and the whole mess might be eligible for some grant funding, if there's anything currently floating around for say, recycling of old computer components, or the like.

It seems a win-win-win situation to me, with more computing power available to Rosetta, tax deductions for contributors, and more old PC's kept out of public landfills. Plus, if this project reaches completion, the "farms" can then be turned over to other worthy causes.

This is all considerably beyond my scope in terms of organizational and technical ability, but perhaps someone out there might be interested.

Regards,
Druegan

Well I certainly like the idea. I guess the major concern here would be the maintenance it would require, and the power consumption of the whole farm...

The power side of it is an economically solvable problem (more funds = more power).
But the maintenance part... A hall stuffed with thousands of old PCs sounds like a nightmare to maintain :you'd probably have dozens of failures a day, and it's probably hard to find spare parts for old stuff. Then once a computer stops working (because it will at some point), how do we get rid of it? landfills again. Or if you're concerned about your environement, you call in for even more funds, dismantle the machines and recycle them...

But then you'd probably make more money by just recycling the machines than with charity...

Might work, but one would need to seriously think about the buisness-model before he shows it to a banker :)

my 2c :)

- Trib'

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For the maintenance part. When a few machines break down, trying to merg them together so there is a new working system, recycle the broken parts ans store the rest as spare parts.

I could have something, if there is a good business plan

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Member of the Dutch Power Cows

Trying to get the world on IPv6, do you have it? check here: IPv6.RHarmsen.nl

Well, like I said, its just an idea.. lol.

I remember reading about a charitable project a few years ago somewhere up in the pacific northwest... (sorry, can't remember the name of it to find a link) They were taking donations of old computers, using volunteer labor to somewhat "refurbish" them, and offering them inexpensively to low-income families. This project, if I remember correctly, was also offering the option of "put in X hours of labor at our volunteer center and get a pc for free" kind of deal for people who couldn't afford even the cheap prices. They were also getting corporate and private donor sponsorship, and they had contracted with a company that did "environmentally responsible" disposal of the parts that were just plain "dead". Something like that could work. It doesn't completely get rid of the problem of pc's in landfills, but it does help cut down / delay the matter somewhat.

Now, if one was *very* organized, and had access to someone savvy in the government grant department... It might be possible to combine the maintenance requirements with some sort of basic computer hardware training program.. either some kind of vocational co-op with a local highschool, or providing training to disadvantaged youth to help with both the maintenance, and helping them learn trade skills. This could also be used to qualify for some grant funding.

Another notion to consider would be some of the electronics store chains that take used PC's as "trade ins".. a lot of them just junk the old systems. If a person could strike a deal with them "Give us the trade-ins for a tax write-off and good PR", there might well be a source of a LOT of reasonable parts.

There's also nothing saying that this has to be an absolutely *huge* project in any one locale, either.. Since this is all done via distributed computing, heck... Once one started the NFP and got the charitable bits worked out with the IRS, local chapters could be set up all over, with each maybe farming a few hundred machines. Of course, larger chapters could host larger farms, but heck, anything helps.

The idea really wasn't to "make money" though... just a sort of way to turn over old pc's and help boost the research.

You're thinking of the Stone Supercomputer, I'll bet.

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You're thinking of the Stone Supercomputer, I'll bet.

Actually, no.. but it *is* rather similar of a notion. No, this project was a community charity set up in seattle or portland or somewhere similar. But thanks for the link. It's got some interesting info :)

Power it all with hydrogen fuel cells, and then maybe you'd qualify for more go-green grant money :)

Do it in a climate where you need all the heat that's going to be produced anyway, so that it is a desireable byproduct. The fuel cells themselves put out heat as well.

When the hard drives give out, make it a disc-less unit that does everything on network drives. Now the PC uses less power!

In my area you must PAY to dispose of a PC. You can't just drop it in a landfill. So, you'd be turning a liability into a tax break. This sorta gives you a double benefit there to the donator.

If the fuel cells don't work out, you could run the farm on off-peak power, justifying it as a heat source for the building. (in my area power is over 8 cents per kWh, but off-peak is only 3.4 cents)... 'course the on/off cycle probably would be tough on the old iron.

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Add this signature to your EMail:
Running Microsoft's "System Idle Process" will never help cure cancer, AIDS nor Alzheimer's. But running Rosetta@home just might!
https://boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta/

One of the things I ran into when using older computers was that 8 old systems ate up way too much room, too much monitoring, too much power, and took too long to finish anything. So I replaced 8-10 of the old systems with a single one running at 1.8 to 2 Ghz. (Granted, I added a few more of the 2Ghz cpu machines after awhile.. but that's besides the point. :)

This project asks for 512 Megs of Ram; which still doesn't seem to be typical of the outdated machines that my clients are bringing in.

If you want to end up with machines that work for this project, you'll probably want to donate the slower machines to cheritable families - and either keep the faster ones; or find a benefactor that will donate 2-3Ghz systems with 512 Megs of ram for a certain number of older machines you put out into the hands of those that can use a 75-700Mhz Win98 machine for educational purposes.

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You're thinking of the Stone Supercomputer, I'll bet.

Actually, no.. but it *is* rather similar of a notion. No, this project was a community charity set up in seattle or portland or somewhere similar. But thanks for the link. It's got some interesting info :)

Hmm, perhaps the ACCRC then..?

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Actually I'd donate the *faster* computers, as you can use the older ones fairly easily even if they are under the suggested requirments: linux in command line interface is really cheap on memory, and since you won't use the box for anything but crunching anyway... that means you can allow Rosetta to use the whole 128Mbs or RAM :)

In Switzerland you also have to pay for your old PC to be disposed of. It's pretty expensive (around 40CHF for the computer + screen, that's about 30USD), so I guess this makes Switzerland a pretty good candidate for a charity farm as well :)

I like the idea of using the heat produced by the farm, but for the fuel-cells thingy, it would make the whoe thing pretty costy. Again, Switzerland's energy departement lets you choose how the energy you're provided with comes from. So you could favor clean energy by basically paying a little more per kW/h...

I actually sent an emial to my local authorities asking what the criterias are to be considered a charitable company...

- Trib'

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Salve! I've just come upon this post and would like to compliment you on the idea. It's great! But as you mentioned, Druegan, it would certainly require some real hot shot in terms of organising such an undertaking...

Plus, I tend to agree with BennyRop as far as efficiency is concerned.

Nonetheless, and as much good as it might do, I would certainly volunteer as a supporter. Actually I could even contribute a trio of adaquate machines, a start-up gift, so to say. That is, if things get serious.

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For anyone that lives in the UK, near Hull then have a chat to the BOINC@Hull team, they're trying to use unwanted (or wanted PC's) even spare parts.

One problem I remember them mentioning is in Hull there is a large computer recycling company that makes money out of it, so all the businesses use them, leaves nothing for the little guys :-(

Though the WEEE directive means the company selling you the new computer/ washing maching has the reposibilty of taking your old one away


Of course you should all feel lucky the electricity is cheap where you live..
It cost 3+ times as much here at approx 12p (~22centUS)

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Team mauisun.org

[quote]Well, like I said, its just an idea.. lol.

"I remember reading about a charitable project a few years ago somewhere up in the pacific northwest... (sorry, can't remember the name of it to find a link) They were taking donations of old computers, using volunteer labor to somewhat "refurbish" them, and offering them inexpensively to low-income families. This project, if I remember correctly, was also offering the option of "put in X hours of labor at our volunteer center and get a pc for free" kind of deal for people who couldn't afford even the cheap prices. ...."

The name of the organization is Free Geeks (http://freegeek.org/) and they are very much in business. A good place to donate old computers. I given then at least 3 systems and other misc. stuff.
Cheers,
DJD

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It cost 3+ times as much here at approx 12p (~22centUS)

1.7125 Kroner here, 24 hours a day, (29.2 US cents per kWh).

The heat produced by all those old babies is going to be considerable, yet low grade. I've often wondered if a heatpump, converting the large low grade heat source into a smaller, but useful high grade one could offset the costs of the electricity.

At the end of the day, I think a large farm of old cronks is more trouble then it is worth, loads of hassle, lots of power, and almost no throughput.

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Wave upon wave of demented avengers march cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream.