Join us at: https://boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta/team_display.php?teamid=282

On August 9, 2001, Bush announced a new Federal policy that severely limited stem cell research in the United States. Now, a bipartisan group in Congress is working to eliminate the stifling restrictions the Administration put into place. However, Bush has steadfastly refused to reconsider the issue, despite the fact that his own NIH Director admits that the President's ideology is hindering scientific progress. Bush, who has yet to veto a single piece of legislation since he became President, is now threatening to veto a bill with overwhelming bipartisan support. As preparations are underway for the 2006 Congressional races, it is clear that President Bush is trying to mollify right wing conservatives.

For more than 200 years, the Democratic Party has represented the interests of working families, fighting for equal opportunities and justice for all Americans.

Today, Democrats continue that fight with a firm commitment to the values that we all share as Americans: a secure nation that leads in the world, strong economic growth and new jobs, affordable health care for all Americans, and a better education for our children.

Join us at: https://boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta/team_display.php?teamid=282

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Health Circle
3161 Dykes Road
Miramar, FL 33027

Join us at: https://boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta/team_display.php?teamid=282

On August 9, 2001, Bush announced a new Federal policy that severely limited stem cell research in the United States. Now, a bipartisan group in Congress is working to eliminate the stifling restrictions the Administration put into place. However, Bush has steadfastly refused to reconsider the issue, despite the fact that his own NIH Director admits that the President's ideology is hindering scientific progress. Bush, who has yet to veto a single piece of legislation since he became President, is now threatening to veto a bill with overwhelming bipartisan support. As preparations are underway for the 2006 Congressional races, it is clear that President Bush is trying to mollify right wing conservatives.

For more than 200 years, the Democratic Party has represented the interests of working families, fighting for equal opportunities and justice for all Americans.

Today, Democrats continue that fight with a firm commitment to the values that we all share as Americans: a secure nation that leads in the world, strong economic growth and new jobs, affordable health care for all Americans, and a better education for our children.

Join us at: https://boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta/team_display.php?teamid=282

I see you democrats continue to knowingly lie through your teeth. You try to shove your lying down everyones throuts. You must think people are really stupid not to know its federal funding that will not be used and to deliberrately lie about what Stem cell research is showing promise and what stem cell research is pie in the sky. Of course you lie about it along with other things because the truth does not serve your hate. Federal money will not be used but any private enterprise can fund it. Absolutely no mention from you about real provern effects in Adult stem cells being conducted know. You want federal money poured down a rat hole where no science shows promise yet.

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http://www.christianboards.org/forum.php
http://usalug.org/phpBB2/index.php

I see you democrats continue to knowingly lie through your teeth. You try to shove your lying down everyones throuts. You must think people are really stupid not to know its federal funding that will not be used and to deliberrately lie about what Stem cell research is showing promise and what stem cell research is pie in the sky. Of course you lie about it along with other things because the truth does not serve your hate. Federal money will not be used but any private enterprise can fund it. Absolutely no mention from you about real provern effects in Adult stem cells being conducted know. You want federal money poured down a rat hole where no science shows promise yet.

That's not a nice way to welcome other people to the project you know. You may not agree on politics, that's okay, but please be kind for each other on the forum.

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On August 9, 2001, Bush announced a new Federal policy that severely limited stem cell research in the United States. Now, a bipartisan group in Congress is working to eliminate the stifling restrictions the Administration put into place. However, Bush has steadfastly refused to reconsider the issue, despite the fact that his own NIH Director admits that the President's ideology is hindering scientific progress. Bush, who has yet to veto a single piece of legislation since he became President, is now threatening to veto a bill with overwhelming bipartisan support. As preparations are underway for the 2006 Congressional races, it is clear that President Bush is trying to mollify right wing conservatives.

For more than 200 years, the Democratic Party has represented the interests of working families, fighting for equal opportunities and justice for all Americans.

Today, Democrats continue that fight with a firm commitment to the values that we all share as Americans: a secure nation that leads in the world, strong economic growth and new jobs, affordable health care for all Americans, and a better education for our children.

Yeah, this verbiage looks too much like it was lifted from the democratic play book, verbatim. But if like-minded folk want to join up and contribute cpu cycles toward Rosetta's goals I don't think their politics matter. I happen to be Republican and I welcome Dems to Rosetta anyway.

Rather than make comments about how one side sees the other. . I'll make the comment I always think of when my 'side' is on the losing end.

With only two parties to affiliate with, it's very easy to get into a you're with us or you're against us mentality. This isn't realistic. . say there are 30 issues each party has to take a side on, most are going to overlap, or at the very least, only going to fit a small percentage of the population exactly.

For better or worse, people pick a party based on their family history or the part of the country they live in. . both of which are peer pressure based.

Regardless, my point (at last). Nobody would wish their party to have 100% representation in government. Without a check on power, corruption becomes common place. . and without a fear of being voted out of office, representatives have no motivation to represent their constituents. Like the other party or not, they serve a purpose, and for that reason should at least be respected without being considered evil or anti-American.

Just my $.02. . hopefully this thread doesn't turn too crazy on the political stuff :)

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Maybe USA can learn something from Denmark, one of the happiest people in the world ?

About danish parlament

More info here

:-) from good old DK

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My biggist problem with out right lie about fetal stem cell research comes from people comming at it from politics. Claiming "Heres the future for cures, people will be able to walk again." These claims were made for political gain based on a lie. No one has a clue where Fetal Stem cell research will lead at all and wont for 20 years. At present real scientists are getting results right now in adult stem cell research. To put out bad science, to blatantly lie about things is one thing. If you want a political team its fine by me. But I will not let a blatant lie go by and not say something.
Think about what kind of snake oil someone trying to sell for his own purpose. Telling people they are staying in their wheel chairs because Bush does not support Fetal stem cell research and top it off by not mentioning it is federal dollars not being used, any private company can do the research.
Notice that no private company wants to pour millions into this....good reason for that.

Put the federal dollar research into programs like this....That show real promise.
Stop playing stupid irresponsible political games with peoples lives which is what I call misdirecting resources better used on programs getting results now.

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http://www.christianboards.org/forum.php
http://usalug.org/phpBB2/index.php

Yeah, this verbiage looks too much like it was lifted from the democratic play book, verbatim.

as is natural in a fortrightly partisan team, surely?

But if like-minded folk want to join up and contribute cpu cycles toward Rosetta's goals I don't think their politics matter. I happen to be Republican and I welcome Dems to Rosetta anyway.

I like your attitude here Idle. I happen to be a peace activist but welcome many many military people to Rosetta. I disagree with them over many issues, but enjoy the chance to meet here where we can (perhaps with mutual surprise) find we have something in common.

Seems to me it could be the same with party-political differences

River~~

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Please don't use a team thread to attack the basis of that team's existence.

They had it coming in my opinion.

Its one thing to join a project and start a team. Its another to join a project and sprout off lies and half-truths with no regard for those who disagree with them. They opened the door with their initial post. You really cant blame someone for standing and defending his [or her] opinions of the statement. If the tables were turned and I started a CONSERVATIVE TEAM, and announced my team by bashing the dems for their horrific behavior during the Alito confirmations, what do you expect would happen? Its a 2 way street. If people come to this site with an axe to grind or an agenda, they should expect rebuttals and debate.

Perhaps instead of going after Pphalan, we should look at the whole picture. This is one of the MANY reasons why politics should be left out of the forums. Political debates will only spark dissent and divide people.

I welcome ALL people to the project irregardless of your political leanings. But please dont insult me or others by trying to ram your beliefs or agenda down my throat. Believe what you wish, as will I.

Just my honest opinion,
Spectre

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Please don't use a team thread to attack the basis of that team's existence.

m8

I think only a Democrat would see this as a team thread. It is obviously a political thread because they didn't say "come join us and see what we are about" they posted a political statement and wrapped it inside the team thread guise.

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David Stites
Mount Vernon, WA USA

Please don't use a team thread to attack the basis of that team's existence.

They had it coming in my opinion.

Its one thing to join a project and start a team. Its another to join a project and sprout off lies and half-truths with no regard for those who disagree with them. They opened the door with their initial post.

This is a cafe. Think about that as a metaphor.

So you go into a real cafe and there is a group of Dems sat round a table drinking coffee, talking amongst themselves and you hear them say a load of stuff you personally don't agree with, perhaps stuff about your party.

Do you *really* go over and sit down at their table and tell them you think they are a load of liars?

I don't think so. Even though a cafe is in some ways a public space, you also (I hope) respect the groups of people within that cafe. And if you don't respect the rights of other groups in the cafe the management ask you to leave.

If they said the same kind of thing in a public meeting then heckling is fair play. Do you understand the difference I am drawing here?

Not really....this thread is called "Join 'Democratic Party' Team" then is introduced with their "opinion". If they plan to start a team and use their original statement as the method of recruiting and supporting their team, then I have an equal right to express my opinion as well. Why do they have the right to say their mind but I dont have the right to say mine?

Comparing this forum to a cafe is like comparing apples to oranges. A cafe doesnt have people telling you what you can and cannot say. Though you have the freedom to express yourself in a cafe, if you say something a person finds offensive, I see no reason why the offended person cannot speak his mind. If I heard this statement in a public place, I would say something. Its my right. And thats how it should be here as well if you want to equate this place with a public arena.

Going to a HUGE EXTREME [and I DONT compare this with the people who started this thread and only cite this as an example and DONT feel this way], if I posted a message saying I wish America would die, cheered for the terrorists, and praised Osama Bin Laden, would you feel the same way if someone posted their concerns with my post?

Irregardless, consider this whole issue dropped. Everyone has a right to form a team here and its really none of my business to poke my nose into other people's business. I was merely defending the position of the people who felt they needed to speak their mind about the information posted by this team.

Spectre

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Health Circle
3161 Dykes Road
Miramar, FL 33027

I'd like to add to what Ethan says.

Debate is an important part of politics, and debate within the cafe in general should be allowed. We have already had one overtly political thread, and there is nothing (in my view) to stop someone starting a 'Republicans vs Democrats' thread, or 'Labour vs Tories' or whatever and providing both sides can debate their differences in a civilised way that is fine.

Those who do not want to read that debate will simply avoid clicking on that thread - no problem.

However, a team recruiting thread - one that is dedicated to a particular team - is not the place to do this. A team recruiting thread should, in my opinion, be left to be a place where people of that persuasion can build on their unity - whether it be a political stance, a sense of humour, a language, a nationality, or whatever that binds them together.

Friendly teasing, maybe - but it has to be obvious it's intended in a good natured way. Natural opponents maybe will want to tease when they overtake each other in the stats - fine.

Serious disagreement however should be referred to a separate thread.

In this case, I would have been happier if the reply had been posted elsewhere, and at most a brief post in this thread saying "not everyone sees it that way - for the alternative view see link". That would have shown respect for the team's space while equally showing that there is room for difference on the story told.

It is about showing respect while simultaneously highlighting a difference of opinion.

m8

Join us at: Democratic Party Team

Thank you Moderator8. I agree that this is neither the time, nor the place for debate about politics. So let me do as you suggest and offer some links that will offer different viewpoints (many which blog):

I hope no one was offended, if so let us start a debate in another room, not here. However, if you have questions to ask (rather than points to make) please by all means ask them, however I would prefer they concern the team, not politics issues.

You say this is not the place for debate, after you have posted a large amount of political propaganda. You want to have your say and stop all the rest of us from having ours. Very political indeed. And the moderaters are helping you which makes me feel like abandoning these boards all together. If you are allowed to say whatever you want but the rest of us aren't this whole board is politically biased, against those of us who disagree with you. A very neat trick, you should be proud of yourself.

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David Stites
Mount Vernon, WA USA

You say this is not the place for debate, after you have posted a large amount of political propaganda. You want to have your say and stop all the rest of us from having ours. Very political indeed. And the moderaters are helping you which makes me feel like abandoning these boards all together. If you are allowed to say whatever you want but the rest of us aren't this whole board is politically biased, against those of us who disagree with you. A very neat trick, you should be proud of yourself.

Perhaps, rather than assuming that the entire world is against you, you might consider that there is another explanation for what is being written. No one suggested that you not hold, nor express your opinion. Just that the location you chose might not be appropriate.

If you opened a thread and expressed your opinions there ... well, that is all they suggested that you might want to consider doing.

The original post was a invite to join a team that has a certain belief system. And as part of that an expression was made that may or may not have been a true reflection of reality. If you had opened another thread with Join Republican party with the sum total of your original couple of posts, including pointing to this thread and expressing your belief that all democratic party members are liars, well, no one would have said a word...

Shouting "Fire!" in public places is not considered to be covered by free speach. There are always limits. In this case, however much you feel that what is expressed is a lie, does not entitle you to be, ahem, rude ... and that is all anyone has been saying.

Demonizing other people is a very convient way to avoid examining your own behavior ...

Oh, and had the discussion points been reversed, I would have been saying the same thing to the democrats ...

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http://www.christiancourier.com/penpoints/stemCellLogic.htm

It all depends on what your ethical viewpoint will tolerate.... myself, I agree with pphalan.

Glad to have you crunching for rosetta, but pushing your political agenda is tacky at best.

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Vist http://usalug.org
https://boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta/team_display.php?teamid=593

easy people -

Politics don't think about science in real scientific categories. Their categories are measured in polls, public realtions end elections (LOL). Money are nothing when politics speak about new military research, new weapon. But politics will find 101 problems ... when we ask for help in other scientific problems.

In science You cannot predict full result and consequence of all Your research, even the most unusefull one. You cannot even predict who, where and when will use Your metods of research, or Your result. Skłodowska-Curie was
a pioneer of radioactivity but did She think about nuclear reactor or atomic warhead, radiometric dating or better - radiation therapy ?

what about stem cells - well, maybe genetic is all for cell to change cell destination or stage of development. For example cell need information about position in organ (hormons, gradient of hormons), recent stage of development (you canot build, when You don't know what was build), and information about what will become form this cell (in genome, connected with hormons). If cell have all information that is requred then cell will develop normally. if not ... then we see problems !

It is posisble that some of physical information is required for normal cell development, even for stem cells.

Some information in plant cells have psysical nature - like tension in organ (plant cell wall and it properites). Cell "feel" tension and this could be an information for direction of cell division. It is connected with so called tensor of growt (search tensor growth, simplastic growth (very important !!!), plant cell wall). Some Scientist predict that our bones may have growt by similar way. If You are interesed i will write more about this.

And we must remember all living cell's have one ancestor cell in past (if You believe in Evelution Theory). That's why some cell infromation could be similar to plant and animal cells.

sorry for my bad english (I KNOW IT IS REALLY BAD) ! i'm still learning :)

My biggist problem with the outright lie about fetal stem cell research comes from people coming at it from politics... (claims of) "Here's the future for cures, people will be able to walk again." These claims were made for political gain based on a lie.

Based on a lie and built on a foundation of quicksand. The greatest scientific sophistry of the young 21st century is this macabre joke of using aborted babies' stem cells to see if mayyyybe we can coax spinal tissue or neurons or whatever from them, like Frankenstein might try. Nothing close to a usable amount of tissue has yet been created from these cells, or any other kind of stem cells, for that matter (though umbilical and adult cells seem to show more promise). Everything touted about these cells is speculation. Seems like it's a good new-age cover to legitimize abortion and making embryos for the sake of harvesting stem cells...

No one has a clue where fetal stem cell research will lead at all, and won't for 20 years.

That's optimistic. Richard Nixon declared war on cancer c. 1971, and we're now using DC to -try- to advance what so far has been pretty futile research. At least we know what cancer does and (partially) how it forms. We know genes and the genome and have chemo drugs, etc. Stem cells are a fool's errand; the research done with them flies in the face of the scientific method. Everyone studying them or supporting the research assumes something good will come from them and is working (or reasoning) backward from that conclusion, rather than just looking at them and experimenting without making the result a foregone conclusion. And they're using murdered babies, too...

-Real- scientists are getting results right now in adult stem cell research. To put out bad science, to blatantly lie about things is one thing. If you want a political team, it's fine by me. But I will not let a blatant lie go by and not say something.

Neither will I. I join you. If you want to use fetal/embryonic stem cells, use the ones from miscarriages or stillbirths. Abortion is already murder, and that puts those stem cells off limits (or should). We'd never condone using stem cells from the bodies of exectued Chinese prisoners, many of whom are innocent and thus are homicides. So why will we legitimize the execution of the unborn? We ought to be trying abortionists for their shot at the hangman's noose, not indirectly lauding their horrors by using the byproducts of their own insane "medicine".

Think about what kind of snake oil someone's trying to sell for his own purposes. Telling people they are staying in their wheelchairs because Bush does not support fetal stem cell research, and top it off by not mentioning it is federal dollars not being used. Any private company can do the research.
Notice that no private company wants to pour millions into this... good reason for that.

All politics as we know it is snake oil, especially when the emotions come into play. Certain factions of our political system love to play to the emotions, as they seem always to trump reason and fact. You don't put Barbra Streisand on a platform and have her tell people that Clinton should not be impeached if you're using a fact-based approach to argument.

We may see federal money used for this quackery, even with us running a $1T deficit- a fact the press loves to ignore. Indeed, private companies will not touch this hand grenade... they have ethics, for the most part, while the government has nothing but the temerity to be as it is. They also know that throwing $10M, $20M, $100M at something without a guarantee of -anything- is bad business sense. The feds don't care about that... they just love spending money and feeling important.

Put the federal (research dollars) into programs like this... that show real promise. Stop playing stupid, irresponsible political games with people's lives, which is what I call misdirecting resources better used on programs getting results now.

If the feds put their unused flops into what we're doing, we could get 100x more done, if not more. Federal PC's would be crunching so much that Rosetta and others would have to come out with mew WU's constantly just to keep up. We'd have these diseases cured, or at least under control. Nope, we'd rather just play politics...

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The lovely lady you see isn't I, but Hayley Westenra, a classical crossover singer from Christchurch, NZ. There is no known voice as hers. Check her out- she's seraphic.